Spook Country-In Progress-W/Spoilers?

well. this is the future forum. what future do we have? we have the extracts. i've just gone through the archives. as far as i can see, to date, these are all the extracts that are available. read, re-read, discuss.

Original Post
So far we have three narrators and three apparently independent plots, although we know little about the musical side of the story. As the narrative mesh of Count Zero was extremely attractive to me, this makes me quite excited about the new novel.

And the surfeit of blogs would mean that the big collision of plots event and the aftermath is already mapped out. However I do not feel comfortable discussing a work in progress in the possible hearing of the author, as part of me wants to influence the final touches but the bigger part prefers to keep a reactive, typical reader stance.

So, rather, do you think Cayce will return in the following novel (P.T. seems the only narrator in the current one with a chance to actually tie in with her)?

José
yeah its difficult to speculate about stuff we haven't read yet, and as you say perhaps unwise. but as the blog says, he is on the home stretch, so i can't see him giving into the pressure to have his female characters trying to break their boyfriend's noses as an act of foreplay, regardless of how hard trogdor pressures him.

i'm frustratingly blanking on the name i'm looking for, keep nearly getting it - but i guess the music storyline could tie into the guy that was in pattern recognition - the one with botox face that cayce kept bumping into. that could be an interesting side. if that then paralleled with scenes from pattern recognition then it would be extra sweet. but still, any speculation in that direction also counts as possibly being influential.

of course to take it back further, someone speculated in the "he blogs" thread about whether this was this "start" of the sprawl world. of course the real defining point of the sprawl was neuromancer itself. but i guess there is still the rise of the sprawl culture and how things got to the point of tessier ashpool and wintermute. but i think that is the least likely road to be travelled.
i would tend to say if he talked about it then its relevant to this thread, i would tend to think of this thread as being for talking about the actual work in progress more than any speculation.

but as you say, with the current lack of search function its a pain.

Originally posted by remotepush:
i would tend to say if he talked about it then its relevant to this thread, i would tend to think of this thread as being for talking about the actual work in progress more than any speculation.


OK - it's in the TimesTalk podcast "Cyber Author" (scroll down - unfortunately it's a 34MB mp3), where wg is interviewed by Brent Staples, at about 60:13. It's possibly not as much of an overview as I thought but I stealthed my minitranscript anyway for those of you who want to go hog wild speculation-wise.

Brent Staples: I know often times writers don't want to talk about their works in progress, but what can you tell us about the novel you're working on now?

WG: Well, it's got some... the NSA's Echelon-USA base in Sugar Grove, West Virginia will probably be mentioned at least once, but... one of the... I wonder... what can I say about this thing? It's got a fair bit about something called "illicit facilitating", which is a kind of law-enforcement-and-anti-terrorism speak for the people that the bad guys hire to do the stuff that's a little too complicated for them to do. And there are a lot of these IFs, so-called... there are a lot of them in the world today and they're a real problem, because they'll... y'know, if you're a bad guy with a lot of money they're the ones who'll do what you need done. And I thought that these... reading about the illicit facilitators, I thought about the cowboys in Neuromancer...

Staples: The samurai...

WG: Yeah, and that, in fact, was what those guys... that was sort of what I'd imagined there, so I wanted to try to put some in the world today. So I started trying to build America's smallest ethnic crime family as part of this narrative and I came up with these people who live in... a family, really, not a very big family, they live in Manhattan, they're literally Cuban-Chinese by inter-marriage and they were, before they came here, a sort of very secretive part of Cuba's equivalent of the KGB, and the father, the godfather and founder of this outfit, just didn't, yknow, want to have to live in Cuba anymore, so using the skills that he and his family had they just sort of translated themselves here about ten years ago.


And that's the relevant bit.
of course if we are going to hide the transcript it makes it difficult (and amusing?) to talk about.

thanks for that anyway. i'm at work, with no speakers, so wouldn't be downloading that. probably same happened last time if that link was posted before.

it does sound interesting. i guess it comes down to the key concept "follow the money".
I guess they would be considered criminal, a crime family; but it sounds like they are an IF family. They seem like more of a family of technical IF acrobats to me. They have a gypsy vibe; I guess they more or less are a new type of gypsy with skills and services to sell to larger more integrated crime families.
i guess they are flexible, avoiding the traps that too many organisations fall into. staying cutting edge, adapting to new paradigms.

as for gypsy-tech. there is a catalanese band called ojos de brujo - i'm sure i read that they live in caravans with satellite link-ups, performing traditional catalanese music mixed with contemporary hip-hop/electronic culture.

then there were the mongolian nomads in nick middleton's exploration of the silk routes. goat skin huts with satellite tv.

so the idea of techno-gypsy/nomads is certainly a reality.

oh and of course, i admire the way that you quoted the piece to undo rob's efforts. Razz
Well, as my efforts were directed entirely towards dodging responsibility for killing people's buzz, Eric didn't really undo them at all.

Now that search is back: Spiff - FP - Bad luck, Archie!

You mean "gypsy" in the nomadic sense too, Eric? I have the impression the moves referred to in the extracts are situational, although I guess they could find themselves on the lam a lot.
thinking about the idea of a nomadic family, i don't really get that impression from the interview. it describes a family that have moved from cuba to america, doesn't really suggest anything more than someone who got bored of the emargo and decided the move would suit their lifestyle.

i think you are thinking back to the scene where the pair are cleaning the flat - which harks back to the idea of data cleaners, and the criminal infrastructure, the "illicit facilitating".

though the idea of nomadism is something that i do find interesting, and think makes a lot of sense in the changing world culture.
Brent Staples: I know often times writers don't want to talk about their works in progress, but what can you tell us about the novel you're working on now?


Did anyone else think that Brent Staples was an extraordinarily inept interviewer? Talk about stilted... Some entertainment from his embarrassing attempts to ingratiate himself or his failure to recognise/respond to many of WGs allusions didn't really make up for the deadness.
After rereading the transcript, I think you guys are right about the family being settled or at least home based in Manhattan and nonnomadic but situational travelers. You are right about the data cleaning scene remote. But the nomadic gypsy thing put me on a little Wiki apophenia adventure. From Gypsy I went to Gitanos where I found
quote:
Vocally, The Gitano characterize the flamenco by giving precendence of emotion over text, with emotional outbursts and extended vowels.

The flamenco goes along with remote's Ojos de Brujo. From Gitanos, I went to Caló. And googling Caló ended up with
quote:
In his book, Inmigración y lengua nacional (Editorial Academia, La Habana: 1994), the renowned Cuban linguist, Sergio Valdés Bernal compiled a list of words from the Caló language that are used in popular Cuban speech. Caló is the language of the Spanish Roma (the group known as "gitanos" in Spain, "Gypsies" in English, and "ciganos" in Portuguese). -- Source: Jacob Dyer-Spiegel

That got me back to Cuba and the criminal subculture, the orisha, and a nice list of words.
quote:
Originally posted by Eric:
quote:
ojos de brujo

Cool name. Cool Site too.

How about? Ojos del Lazer.


yeah their site is smart.
they make a lot of effort with their CDs as well. the two albums i have are filled with diverse and inspiring art.
musically its not what i would guess i would like, but i heard it on the radio and loved it.
I would not call it apophenia, rather a hidden connections effect.

Caló, the Roma/Spanish dialect, was probably the biggest influence in underworld cant in Spain for four centuries. That means that all former Spanish colonies, even if never there was a strong migration of Spanish gypsies to the New World, received a linguistic influence from the gypsies. And not forgetting that gypsies from the former slav countries did migrate in unknown numbers.

So finding Roma words in underworld cants anywhere in South America is to be expected.

José
Have you checked out the software, Zulupad?

It's basically a Notepad replacement, with the deviancy of a wiki. It allows you to do, basically, what you did with the links. But if you take one of his new entries and paste it into a page, any references in the text (character names, etc...) will hotlink to other reference s of that text.

Kind of a cool, extendable, searchable, information array.
I just like the word apophenia alot. Oh no, I'm one of those people now. The ones that like a word and keep using it in the wrong context and distort the meaning ack!

I'm going to end up buying their new album now remote. Can't pass up a band that puts forth Techarí (according to ODB bio means "free" in Caló)

The Caló is very interesting. Neat about influencing cultures through viral languages whether the people emigrate there or not,JRE.

I'll definitely check out the Zulupad.
i picked up bari first. techari probably isn't vastly different, which will be why i have a slight preference for bari. though there are a couple of various editions of techari, one over sized with extra art, and both that i've seen with a second disc with videos on it. got a feeling its cd-rom rather than dvd unfortunately. actually caught them on tv one night - jool's holland - there were about a dozen of them on stage and they had a good energy. another band in a similar vein, though polish, the warsaw village band - mix of traditional polish folk music, with a more contemporary and electronic influence throughout.
quote:
Originally posted by Rob W.:
Anyone else get the impression Ososhi isn't physically there? Or is that obvious?


yeah i got the spirit impression from that reference. i can't recall whether the name has come up before, but i have a sense it has and got that impression then as well.
Could be physical and spiritual presense. Some type of statue or symbol in a pack over his shoulder. Might have been spotted in an act of worship. Possibly sacrificial in the park. But either way Oshosi is a perfect presense for those being hunted or hunting.
Ah, right, so Oshosi (also Osooshi) is the god of hunting in various pantheons. A quick google would have cleared that up. I guess Eric's right; the god could be present figuratively/spiritually or in an icon.

I'm leaning towards the spirit presence.
Once again I bring you news of a book coming out next year that you can't order yet: William Gibson's next novel, his first since 2003's Pattern Recognition, is likely to come out in the middle of next year, we hear from his publisher. In this case, though, you can read a few bits of it, as Gibson's been posting short, unexplained sections from the work in progress on his blog a few times a month since January. One thing that's clear, from what he's posted: the novel, like Pattern Recognition, is set in the present, but a present that has caught up with (and often surpassed) Gibson's near-future imagination in his earlier books. It's also clear that he pays attention to his readers: already he's changed the name of a character mentioned in one of the excerpts after readers reminded him that he's used the name "Bunny" twice before.

Gibson's the kind of writer who has FANS; I'm just a small-f fan, who liked the fabled Neuromancer but only really fell in love with Pattern Recognition (which I picked as the best fiction of the year back when I was an editor on our Canadian site). Ever since I've wanted to go back to some of the books in between. Where should I start, Gibsonians? --Tom, Books Editor


This awaited me when I logged into Amazon today
It seems to me that WG is very much reenacting the Sprawl Trilogy again. not in-so0far as plot and theme are concerned but rather in structure. We move from PR, having only Cayce's viewpoint to the new book which has three viewpoints. Just as we went from Case in Neuro to the three viewpoints of Bobby, Marly and Turner in CZ.

It's almost as if WG is cleansing that old cyberpunk gene from his system by tackling modernity (and very possibly futurity--as WG has stated that today is more sci-fi than sci fi)by revisiting the first go-round in a structual manner. Not to mention that obscure religion grafted onto the armature of urabnity also pops up in these tantalising fractals he offers...

Now is this a conscious choice? Does our friend mean to address those culture defining books? Is this some sort of meta reference to his previous renown and the world which he then spun, now so very far removed from the actual future we inhabit?

It will be most interesting to see.
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