things i did not get in Mloverdrive

i dont get a few things after reading MonaLisaOverdrige:

- why wanted the gods molly to bring mitchell into the aleph?

- will the aleph shutdown when the aleph wont have any battery left

- why was a double body needed for an asssasination of mitchell?what was 3janes purpose

- the white macroform has the same form as the matrix itself?

- who helped continuity getting mitchell on drugs to change her brainthingy
thanks for answers
Original Post
It has been a few years for me too, but I'll try.

quote:
Originally posted by chase36chase:
- why wanted the gods molly to bring mitchell into the aleph?


I believe this has to do with the idea of constantly becoming something else.

quote:

- will the aleph shutdown when the aleph wont have any battery left


No idea, since this isn't explored as a plot line I never spent time wondering.
quote:

- why was a double body needed for an asssasination of mitchell?what was 3janes purpose


I didn't think they wanted to assassinate her, they wanted to replace her. She represented a lot of money and was uncontrollable, with a double they could keep their star and replace her with a more pliable copy.
quote:

- the white macroform has the same form as the matrix itself?


That's deep, brah. No idea.

quote:
- who helped continuity getting mitchell on drugs to change her brainthingy
thanks for answers


I always assumed it was the freaky bodyguard/hairdresser, who introduced her to it as a way of controlling her.

All this is supposition, you might be better asking one of these questions of @greatdismal on twitter.
Don't know it but i am thinking of a paper I read recently on the Immanentist movement. I do not fully understand this but it is typically a religious concept, where the spiritual power of faith is seen in the mundane activities of daily life. However, this paper chose to look at cities as the daily manifestation of larger processes constantly remaking the city. Thus, cities became bundles of possibilities rather than static emplacements or sites of investment.
Hmm... the Wikipedia article for immanence is making my head spin a bit. But... I *think* it's sort of like... the feeling I get, watching Cosmos while really stoned, and Sagan says something like, "we are the universe knowing itself".

Carl Sagan I think is a great teacher of, besides science, philosophical monism. Watching the Cosmos series, stoned like the cliche of a Redditor I am, monism seemed like a big theme of that series.

In the old days, we thought the Earth was the domain of sinful humanity, and the Heavens were the domain of transcendent God. We even thought there were different laws of physics governing Earth and governing the Heavens. But then we had people like Copernicus and Newton, and we realized the same laws on Earth apply to the Heavens.

So, our minds... do not come from a transcendent God, but they come from the same matter and energy as the universe around us.
Reading Neuromancer and Count Zero close to a reading of MLO definitely helps!

Much of the beginning plot of Count Zero concerns Angie's father and Turner's helping him to defect from Maas, which of course, is not what happens since Turner ends up escaping Maas with Angie.

Angie is a unique character since her brain can directly access the Matrix. The Matrix can also directly access her brain, allowing the AI 'gods' to possess her body and manifest in the real world.

At the end of CZ, Bobby and Angie have seemingly escaped pursuers, started a relationship, and Angie is groomed to be a simstar. MLO picks up (8?) years later and explores the consequences of all that . . .

Here is another good summary of all three books:

http://www.antonraubenweiss.co...bson/sprawlsumm.html
Most answers to this and similar questions were proposed and discussed in what must be one of my favorite threads, Wintermute

Just remember that these are my answers, not the right answers. Not even WG knows the right answers after all these years.

quote:
- why wanted the gods molly to bring mitchell into the aleph?


She was the first to directly contact the AIs, so they wanted her in for the next stage. Maybe AIs may feel gratitude and obligation. Giri and its equivalents play a big role in this novel.

quote:
- will the aleph shutdown when the aleph wont have any battery left


Probably. But it can be charged by sun panels. And some of us think it does not matter, that once the Soul-catcher has caught your personality, you are an AI so you can be anywhere in the matrix.

quote:
- why was a double body needed for an asssasination of mitchell?what was 3janes purpose


Because 3jane did not want Angie dead, at least before she was finished with the Count but unless she gave SenseNet a body they would not stop looking for her. Others, like Lanier, had other plans...

quote:
- the white macroform has the same form as the matrix itself?


And what form would be that? It might contain the matrix, it may be something else (such as the Centauri matrix).

quote:
- who helped continuity getting mitchell on drugs to change her brainthingy


Porphyre did, because her biochip was going to kill her, so they had to change it.
Colin Hacked into the aleph via the matrix. Then there must be a way out for the three inhabiting the Aleph. Or wait.. The hacking into the aleph was done, while the aleph was connnected to the matrix. Then the answer must be, that they all die in the aleph , when the energy is out
Does your copy of Windows die when you turn off your computer?

And anyway, some of us believe that the soulcatcher (alternate name for the Aleph) is there to transform human minds in digital ones that can run in the Matrix. Once transformed, they are free to roam, or go to Alpha Centauri, or have copies doing all those things at the same time.
Molly comments about giving Mitchell some time for herself, but you can see how Bobby and the others come and go in the Matrix.

So it is just some time to let her come to terms with her new life as an AI. Unlike Bobby, she was not ready for her physical death, so instead of experiencing the whole of the matrix at once, she remains in a small, controlled setting, 3Jane domain. The ending has her finally coming out of "the house" (the Aleph) to really check the rest of the Matrix, and the Other.

While checking Mona Lisa online I stumbled upon WGs afterword for the first electronic edition, and I think it is worth posting it here, where only a few (the select few, I would like to add) will see it.

quote:
Author's Afterword

Ten years have now passed since the inception of whatever strange process it was
that led me to write Neuromancer , Count Zero , and Mona Lisa Overdrive . The
technology through which you now access these words didn't exist, a decade ago.
Neuromancer was written on a "clockwork typewriter," the very one you may
recall glimpsing in Julie Deane's office in Chiba City. This machine, a Hermes
2000 manual portable, dates from somewhere in the 1930's. It's a very tough and
elegant piece of work, from the factory of E. PAILLARD & Cie S.A. YVERDON
(SUISSE). Cased, it weighs slightly less than the Macintosh SE/30 I now write
on, and is finished in a curious green- and-black "crackle" paint-job, perhaps
meant to suggest the covers of an accountant's ledger. Its keys are green as
well, of celluloid, and the letters and symbols on them are canary yellow. (I
once happened to brush the shift-key with the tip of a lit cigarette,
dramatically confirming the extreme flammability of this early plastic.) In its
day, the Hermes 2000 was one of the best portable writing- machines in the
world, and one of the most expensive. This one belonged to my wife's step-
grandfather, who had been a journalist of sorts and had used it to compose
laudatory essays on the poetry of Robert Burns. I used it first to write
undergraduate Eng. lit. papers, then my early attempts at short stories, then
Neuromancer , all without so much as ever having touched an actual computer.
Some readers, evidently, find this odd. I don't. Computers, in 1981 (when
I began to work with the concept of cyberspace, the word having first seen light
on my trusty Hermes) were mostly wall-sized monsters covered with twirling
wheels of magnetic tape. I'd once glimpsed one through a window at the
university. Friends who did things with computers tended to do them at very odd
hours, having arranged to scam time on some large institution's mainframe.
Around that time, however, the Apple IIc appeared. For me, it appeared on
the miniature billboards affixed to bus- stop shelters. This seductive little
unit , looking not that much bigger, really, than your present day Powerbook,
was depicted dangling from a handle in the hand of some unseen suit with a
nicely-laundered cuff. Portability! Amazing! a whole computer in a package that
size! (I didn't know that you had to lug the monitor around as well, plus a
bulky little transformer and another disk- drive that weighed nearly as much as
the computer itself.) These Apple ads were the direct inspiration for the
cyberspace decks in Neuromancer . Like the Hermes 2000, the IIc, in its day,
was quite something.
Not that I ever experienced it in its day, not quite. My Hermes died.
Some tiny pawl or widget caved in to metal-fatigue. No replacement could be
found. I'd just started Count Zero . I gave the typewriter man $75 for a
reconditioned Royal desk machine, a hideous truck-like lump of a thing with an
extended carriage that alone weighed twenty pounds. It had an extended carriage,
he said, because it had belonged to a little old lady who'd only ever used it to
type mimeograph stencils for Sunday- school programs. (Though I suspect many of
you may not know what "mimeograph stencils" were.)
I stuck with this ghastly clunker through Count Zero , but as it came time
to begin Mona Lisa Overdrive , I went shopping for a computer. Bruce Sterling's
father had given him his old Apple II, and Bruce allowed as how it was a pretty
convenient way to put words in a row. Remembering those bus-stop ads, I bought
myself an Apple IIc. This was around 1986 or so, and the IIc had long-since been
eclipsed by various proto-Macs, which everyone assured me were wonderful, but
which I regarded as prohibitively expensive. I bought a IIc in an end-of-line
sale at a department store, took it home, and learned, to my considerable
disappointment, that personal computers stored their data on little circular
bits of electromagnetic tape, which were whirled around to the accompaniment of
assorted coarse sounds. I suppose I'd assumed the data was just sort of, well,
held . In a glittering mesh of silicon. Or something. But silently .
And that, quite literally, was the first time I ever touched a computer.
And I still don't know very much about them. The revealed truth of which, as
I've said, sometimes perturbs my readers, or in any case those readers with a
peculiarly intense computer-tech bent, of whom I seem to have more than a few.
But Neuromancer and its two sequels are not about computers. They may
pretend, at times, and often rather badly, to be about computers, but really
they're about technology in some broader sense. Personally, I suspect they're
actually about Industrial Culture; about what we do with machines, what machines
do with us, and how wholly unconscious (and usually unlegislated) this process
has been, is, and will be. Had I actually known a great deal (by 1981 standards)
about real computing, I doubt very much I would (or could) have written
Neuromancer . Perhaps it all goes to prove that there are situations (literary
ones, at least) in which a little knowledge is not only a dangerous thing, but
the best tool for the job at hand.
A mimeograph stencil, by the way, is a piece of tissue- paper impregnated
with wax. You punch through the wax with a typewriter, creating a stencil
through which ink can be forced onto paper, allowing the reproduction of
multiple copies. For many years, and not so long ago, these curious devices were
very nearly as common as typewriters. They were what people did before laser
printers. The mimeograph is one of many dinosaurs recently brought to the verge
of extinction by the computer. They are dead tech , destined to make up part of
the litter engulfing the Finn's back room. As is my Hermes 2000. As is my Apple
IIc, which my children play with only reluctantly, its black-and-white graphics
no competition for their video-games. As is my old SE/30 here; as is,
eventually, whatever sort of unit, however slick and contemporary, you happen to
be reading this on.
It gives me great pleasure to have these three books digitized, data-
compressed, and published in this (make no mistake) revolutionary format. We
participate, you and I, in the death of print-as-we-knew-it, and should
experience thereby an exquisite frisson of ecstasy and dread. So soon , we
plunge toward a world in which the word "library" simply means something on the
other end of a modem.
But I confess it gives me greater pleasure still, to contemplate that
process whereby every tech, however sharp this morning, is invariably supplanted
by the new, the unthinkable, and to imagine these words, unread and finally
inaccessible, gathering dust at the back of some drawer in some year far up the
road. Nothing in there but a tarnished Yale key, a silver dime, a couple of
desiccated moths, and several hundred thousand data-compressed words, all in a
row.
I know; I put them there.

I'd like to take this opportunity to cite and thank the late Terry Carr, who
commissioned the work that became Neuromancer from an unknown and thoroughly
unconfident writer, one whose track-record at the time consisted of a handful of
short stories. If Terry hadn't been willing to take a chance with me, when he
did, thereby forcing me to write something (a novel) I felt several working
years short of being ready to do, it's most unlikely that these books would
exist today.

-- Vancouver, 6/16/92
I think two possibilities exists as to why Angie was led to the Alphe. 1 because they no longer needed her on the outside. She did their bidding but it seemed to me any Ai could enter her. Maybe now that winter mute is divided into all kinds of personalities there is a risk of a rouge Ai using her. So it's best to retire her. 2 she is integral to communication with the Alpha Centari ai.

The big white cylinder in the matrix was the Alphe when it got plugged in.  The last chapter jumps back just as Angie dies.  In the beginning of the chapter Angie see a horse with three riders, kumi, tick, and collin.  So the events of chapter 37 and 45 take place around the  time Bobby had the Alphe plugged into the matrix. Also where I assume he summoned the Finn. Chapter 45 ends as finn, angie, collin, and Bobby are in a limo talking about a journey they are about to go on.  I presume time jumped foward at this point and it's meant to represent that the alphe is now en route to wherever they intend to go. Maybe Alpha Centari or some common array they can link into in order to talk to the Centari ai.

Molly ended up taking the Alphe plugged into batteries with her. I assume her mission was not done yet. At the end of chapter 37 she calls tick from a payphone presumably after she had fled dog solitude with the judge and the alphe. I think she needs tick to help her with the last task....whatever that may be.  I would venture the ai's intended the alphe to be put on a ship and shot to Alpha Centari.  If the alphe is a copy of the matrix and winter mute became the matrix then a massive storage container like the alphe was needed to get him there (at least the pieces he has become)

- why wanted the gods molly to bring mitchell into the aleph? 

I'm answering from memory here, so I might make a few errors here and there.

I don't think that was necessarily the intended outcome, but an agreeable outcome instead. By the point that Angie wound up in the Solitude, she had been altered from her original form and was not necessarily needed by the loa any longer. If necessary they could always build another biochip embedded human. But that's just conjecture.


- will the aleph shutdown when the aleph wont have any battery left

 

I think that was the intended idea. Molly asks Slick how long until the photocells on the solar panels burn out... which implies that although the solar power will keep the Aleph alive for a limited time, eventually the solar cells will wear out and the batteries will die forever. She considers this "Enough time" for them. But time within the aleph may run differently, so the few months they have might be like an eternity.

 

- why was a double body needed for an asssasination of mitchell?what was 3janes purpose

 

There was no "assassination of Mitchell", presumably 3jane wanted her for the technology in her head. The body double was necessary because they didn't want anyone looking for her. They wanted it to look like an assassination. Molly says to Swain "They will provide a body". The idea is that the authorities find the body double's dead body and think it's the real Angie. So no one will go looking for the real Angie.

 


- who helped continuity getting mitchell on drugs to change her brainthingy

 

Hilton Swift, from memory.

it wasn't Porphyre. He discourages her drug use from the beginning of the book. It is implied that neither Swift nor continuity mean her any harm. They were just doing what they thought was the right thing to do, given the information they were given.

Add Reply

Likes (0)
×
×
×
×