Spook World (transnational and interstitial)

Mr. Fish. Even if he is not named, Bigend fills the page. I am sure Gibson really likes him, even if we will never see the inside of his head.

A quick google only offers (unsubstantiated) that Mr. Fish (Michael Fisher) was in the states in 2006 working in furniture rather than clothes. The samples of his work I have seen are certainly noticeable.

Of course now I have a weird craving now for an IKB suit. I will probably settle for a close analogue color in a shirt.

As for the dating, the crisis nowadays is not even worthy of a remark, and I consider the dates when it actually was remarkable, rather than prophetic or self-evident are the six first months of 2008.
Bohemian. Reusing some of his favorite words. Hook, line and sinker. I do not see anything more intimate than what we had in Spook Country, but Bigend thinks that seduction and aversion are tools to be used to get people do what he wants. As for the air kiss, I think it shows that Bigend is aware that Hollis is looking for excuses to hate him, and prefers to avoid provoking her too much, so no unrequired physical contact.

WG is a Bohemian too, at least with Bigend's definition, as I suspect are many of his friends. That old age comment makes me wonder if he worries, as would be only natural.

Then we have Hollis' book. Maybe it has nothing to do with SC, it is a bio of the Curfew, brought on by the partial reunion, but we cannot help but wonder.

This phrase gave me pause, but I will leave it to others with a better grasp of Expatriate American English:

“And one of the thing’s it’s a by-product of is my fundamental disinterest in wealth.”

Last time he played the fragment game differently. We are seeing a narrow set, and I wonder if he is not asking us if there is a good continuity in the characters.

Such as Garreth and Hollis. We know Hollis liked Garreth. 90% of the women I know would have liked Garreth, anyway. But I just cannot see them together, not two years later. So they had their moment, she started writing the book and to be mad at Bigend for lying, he went on a new adventure, and after all this time Garreth is long gone (though he is a great character for a cameo) and she is frightened to discover she understands Bigend's point of view.

When I started this thread it was mainly for my own peace of mind, fulfilling my part in the unspoken contract with the author, after what he said about "the obsessives" and why he posted the fragments the last time. I did not want it to be in the limelight, just to throw my first impressions out, rather than any elaborate response. But others have taken my ball and run with it, so this is their work even more than mine, and I will keep fielding balls as long as he keeps throwing them.
CABINET
HOLD THE COPROPHAGIA
CRICKET
THE GABRIEL HOUNDS
FIFTEEN
SPECIES
MR. FISH
BOHEMIAN


i think in some ways BOHEMIAN addresses my thoughts on hollis, who she is, what she is doing with her life. these pieces are out of context, so her thinking/situation may have changed since then, but i have this sense of her as a lost girl, trying to find a way forward. though as bigend suggests, perhaps not trying too hard, waiting for projects to fall in to her lap to some extent.

as for her book, that was mentioned in spook country, the one about the bands that in some tangential way influenced the curfew, and ended up being serialised in the record store magazine? can't remember precise details off the top of my head (i am bad person...)
trying to check spook country for book reference and i came across this:

quote:
Chapter 19 Fish

He entered Fish's number from memory, closed his eyes, and thumbed send.

Fish, short for Fisher, his surname, answered before a third ring. "Hello?"

"Fish. Hi."

"Who's this?"

"Milgrim."

"Hey." Fish sounded surprised to hear from him, but then Milgrim
supposed he would be.
the book mentioned might not have any connection to this, but it is possible:

quote:

She had, during the Curfew days, written a few pieces for Rolling
Stone, a few more for Spin. With Inchmale, she'd written the first
in-depth history of the Mopars, their mutual favorite sixties garage
band, though they hadn't been able to find anyone willing to pay them
to publish it. In the end, though, it had run in Jardine's record
store's in-house magazine, its publication one of the few things she'd
gotten out of that particular investment.
quote:
Originally posted by Ghost from the Past:
... that Hollis is looking for excuses to hate him ...


I hate it when that happens...

quote:
...Maybe it has nothing to do with SC, it is a bio of the Curfew, brought on by the partial reunion, but we cannot help but wonder.


...When I read this observation, I couldn't stop my mind from thinking of SC...not as Spook Country but as South Carolina...

Nice thoughts Ghost.
quote:
Originally posted by King Real:
as for her book, that was mentioned in spook country, the one about the bands that in some tangential way influenced the curfew, and ended up being serialised in the record store magazine? can't remember precise details off the top of my head (i am bad person...)


GThat was an article she wrote about a garage bad (and garage bands in general) that had no publisher except the in-house magazine of the store she invested in on, I think, Market St.

Fish was Dennis Birdwell's stoolie and Milgrim's sometime junkie acquaintance.
quote:
Originally posted by Eric:
quote:
Originally posted by Ghost from the Past:
... that Hollis is looking for excuses to hate him ...


I hate it when that happens...

quote:
...Maybe it has nothing to do with SC, it is a bio of the Curfew, brought on by the partial reunion, but we cannot help but wonder.


...When I read this observation, I couldn't stop my mind from thinking of SC...not as Spook Country but as South Carolina...

Nice thoughts Ghost.


I think it is a bio of The Curfew but may have her adventures in vancouver in there toward the end when the band reunites )or implodes again) for the Chinese car job.
CABINET
HOLD THE COPROPHAGIA
CRICKET
THE GABRIEL HOUNDS
FIFTEEN
SPECIES
MR. FISH
BOHEMIAN
AMATEUR

i would say we assume the woman here is hollis again, perhaps another slice of the same pie bohemian came from, seems likely. i would suggest that last line about it not being about sex likely relates to any suggestion that they had had a relationship. i think its possible for people to develop that kind of relationship without having ever been physical in between.

its a short piece, frustratingly. but i think its interesting to see an attempt at explaining the need for people like cayce and hollis to be involved in search of the shiny prize. the idea that bigend has all these over eager staff who would wade in and crush the four leaf clover without even realising thats what they are after seems a good summary of what we've seen so far with his assistants.
The unsettling thing about Bigend is that he is always communicating on two levels; there's what he says out loud and there's what he... emanates.

Both Cayce and Hollis are sensitive enough to read him on that second level and that's what creeps them out, isn't it? When you're involved with Bigend it's not casual. Forget about boundaries. He wants everything you've got. And the unhappily intimate 'ex-boyfriend' feeling comes from the way he always knows when you're holding out.
quote:
Originally posted by King Real: i would suggest that last line about it not being about sex likely relates to any suggestion that they had had a relationship. i think its possible for people to develop that kind of relationship without having ever been physical in between.


But Gibson's prose in his POVs is suggestive of the characters thoughts, so Hollis thinking about it NOT being about sex is suggestive, to me, or her wanting it to NOT be about sex.

People rationalize a good deal of their emotions so as to better sublimate them.

I could be wrong, but think it would be more interesting if I was right.
SC is recent enough I remember some of this stuff. Hollis was ever a reliable narrator, and, as a former rock star, the last thing she would misread was whether someone wanted her erotically or not.

The passing Italian glance rather makes that point clear to me.

When Hollis feels unsure, her inner monologue says so. This passage says, "she knew", in simple terms.

I win. I want tidy and receding Italianates, please.
I disagree, sex is often founded on the magnetism that he displays, the confidence he exudes. Wasn't there a line in PR about how he approached potential mates as if they had already slept with him?

If he's a good looking, rich, uber-confident man with intelligence and talent then sex nearly always, always, enters into the equation and he is perceptive enough to know this.

People do not exist as rational machines who parse their responses to others in the thick of the moment People do not exist as ideals of how they would like to react. Our personalities might be mostly made up of our later analysis of our actions, but said actions are impetuous, instinctual and founded on an older biology.

So, when Bigend is sitting across from a pretty woman and imposing his will on her, of course it has something to do with sex.
Don't know whether the experience is 'sexual' for Bigend or not, but I trust Hollis to know when what a man wants from her is sex or something else.

Assuming Hollis is attractive, and doesn't touch upon negative erotic/women memories in Bigend's mind, I'm sure he wouldn't say no to a go with Ms. Henry.

But unless Bigend believes that sex is the path most likely to get Hollis to do whatever he really wants, it is not on his mind any more than the passing tidy and receding ass. (That IS one of Gib's finer moments Flaubert, I feel.)

If Bigend wants sex, or, who knows, a deep and lasting relationship with Hollis, and believes that sexless adventures of the kind SC provided are most likely to bring her to him that way, he would follow such a course.

Especially with a woman like Hollis who should certainly recognize male desire when it manifests. Bigend seems adept at hiding desire in desire by a sort of 'blinding purloined letter effect'. One always knows he intensely wants *something* from you or else he wouldn't be with you except by accident.

Nonetheless, I don't see Bigend especially attracted to Hollis or not erotically, anymore than Hannibal Lecter was attracted to Jodie Foster's character erotically but very much wanted something from her -- and I don't mean his release or greater inhouse privileges. He wanted her to be whatever she was, period, even if it meant his subsequent recapture.

That seems to be how Bigend sees the people he wants in his life. He believes they have some quality that is very valuable to the worldview he prefers, and entices/manipulates them into just being whom they are in the context he provides them with.

(I now wait for someone to quote me a passage from SC where it is clearly stated that Hollis is an attraction retard despite her years onstage, that she is hopelessly myopic to male lust unless it's blatant. That would be my just desert.)
quote:
Originally posted by UberDog:
I disagree, sex is often founded on the magnetism that he displays, the confidence he exudes. Wasn't there a line in PR about how he approached potential mates as if they had already slept with him?

If he's a good looking, rich, uber-confident man with intelligence and talent then sex nearly always, always, enters into the equation and he is perceptive enough to know this.

People do not exist as rational machines who parse their responses to others in the thick of the moment People do not exist as ideals of how they would like to react. Our personalities might be mostly made up of our later analysis of our actions, but said actions are impetuous, instinctual and founded on an older biology.

So, when Bigend is sitting across from a pretty woman and imposing his will on her, of course it has something to do with sex.


"It's in the limbic brain, Cayce."

(Delayed by some Bigendian activities in Milan).

I believe that Amateur takes place almost inmediately after Bohemian, and WG is teasing us by palming the McGuffin right in front of us. So we get to remember Cayce while we see Bigend play snake charmer.

Nothing sexual with Hollis, he just looks at her with the same greed as he watches an object of desire. Way to feel wanted and objectified at the same time.

As for the discourse, it looks familiar, even if he has not said it so clearly. It is Bigend's justification for his irrational hunches. So I will bring back a few fragments:

quote:
She is on full sexual alert now, Bigend's ambiguity having finally gotten to her. Is this all about that, then? Does Dorotea see her as a sexual competitor? Is she in the sights of Bigend's desire, which she knows, from her friend Margot's stories in New York, to be at once constant and ever shifting?


quote:
She tries to frown, but she suddenly finds him unexpectedly comic. He knows exactly how much of a pain he can be, and something in his delivery lets her in on that; a technique for disarming people, but one that works.
quote:
Originally posted by UberDog:
quote:
Originally posted by kenmeer livermaile:
quote:
Originally posted by UberDog:
Hannibal Lecter was sexually attracted to Clarice Starling.


I hope that doesn't mean Bigend is a cannibal?


He feeds on the blood of virgins remember.


Any man with real erotic balls has eaten some menstrual blood in his time. As for virgins, well, anyone believes a woman telling him *that*... needs to work for Bigend.
quote:
Originally posted by Ghost from the Past:
(Delayed by some Bigendian activities in Milan).

I believe that Amateur takes place almost inmediately after Bohemian, and WG is teasing us by palming the McGuffin right in front of us. So we get to remember Cayce while we see Bigend play snake charmer.

Nothing sexual with Hollis, he just looks at her with the same greed as he watches an object of desire. Way to feel wanted and objectified at the same time.

As for the discourse, it looks familiar, even if he has not said it so clearly. It is Bigend's justification for his irrational hunches. So I will bring back a few fragments:

quote:
She is on full sexual alert now, Bigend's ambiguity having finally gotten to her. Is this all about that, then? Does Dorotea see her as a sexual competitor? Is she in the sights of Bigend's desire, which she knows, from her friend Margot's stories in New York, to be at once constant and ever shifting?


quote:
She tries to frown, but she suddenly finds him unexpectedly comic. He knows exactly how much of a pain he can be, and something in his delivery lets her in on that; a technique for disarming people, but one that works.


¡Hey hombre, ha sido un rato, usted envicia! Agradable verle otra vez
I think we're trying too hard to put together the elephant with the small samples we've been given. We could shoot off in so many tangents. Bigend's magnetism is undeniable, and I'd expect him to have quite complex tastes... maybe he's a Bohemian of the Grove sort? And the edge, again?
quote:
Originally posted by fuldog:
I think we're trying too hard to put together the elephant with the small samples we've been given. We could shoot off in so many tangents. Bigend's magnetism is undeniable, and I'd expect him to have quite complex tastes... maybe he's a Bohemian of the Grove sort? And the edge, again?


My feeling on "the edge" is that this time Bigend should be in relentless pursuit of it (as always) but find it isn't there, have the rug pulled from beneath him and he is the one who gets gamed.

I would be disappointed to see him victorious again just becuase it comes too damn easily for him. I don't want to see him get comeuppance or be ruined, but I think having the joke be on him would be fair. he'd even appreciate it.

He needs a Pierce Inverarity to come up with an elaborate conspiracy which turns out to be a total construct.
quote:
Originally posted by Memetic Engineer:
How significant is it that William Gibson was born in Conway, South Carolina, which is mentioned in the latest fragment Fifteen, just inland from Mrytle Beach , the location of the previous fragment The Gabriel Hounds ?


Who has paid for Milgrim's 15 blood transfusions at a clinic in Basel, Switzerland and why ?

Is this an echo of Case and his drug dependency "cure" from the Chiba clinic in Neuromancer ?


I really like the reflection idea and would like to see all of the reflective descriptions shown on screens simultaneously set up like a mirror funhouse. So it happens from the past, huh; and, you come in through the Difference Engine Entrance way.

"“I don’t think so,” said Milgrim, assuming Sleight was referring to how many times his blood had been changed.

More like fifteen."

It's just possible that 'change' has, in this case, a meaning different than those we associate with it in this current time and plausibility. While Gibson has taken up writing in the present, he hasn't abandoned the forward edge, and that edge may not be entirely present in the here and now.

I know, it's unlikely, based on a wee ambiguity, but it's not as out there as my other thought: that brown and Gang were hep enough to put some kind of slow-release toxin in Milgrim's system that required fifteen flushes to remove.

Or something. To paraphrase: "Remove the dopey, and whatever remains, is probably a tolerable plotline."
quote:
Originally posted by UberDog:
You are a bore, Sentinel. You're opinion is tired and staid.

Uber, man – how generous of you to gift me with this observation hewed from your powerfully qua-modern cognitive process. Let me assure you it means just as much as your other powerfully mis-typed screeds.

Add Reply

×
×
×
×